The Un-Private Collection: Takashi Murakami and Pico Iyer Transcript
Joanne Heyler, founding director of The Broad museum:
Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the historic Orpheum Theatre here in Downtown Los Angeles for tonight’s conversation featuring Pico Iyer and Takashi Murakami. I’m Joanne Heyler, the Director of The Broad Art Foundation and Founding Director of The Broad museum. This is actually the sixth Un-Private Collection talk in The Broad series of conversations, bringing together cultural voices, leading cultural voices, and artists in the Broad collections. What a great turnout tonight. Glad to see you all here. We’re delighted to be reaching such a wide audience.
Since last October, several thousand people have heard our speakers from Eli and Edye Broad themselves to cultural icons such as John Waters, Jeff Koons and Liz Diller, Founding Principal of Diller Scofidio + Renfro, the architects designing our museum. Speaking of our building, we look forward to opening to the public next year in 2015. We’d invite you sooner, however right now it looks a bit like this [shows image of construction site]. We only have about 50 hardhats to go around. But when we open, you’ll be able to enter wearing whatever hat you wish and general admission will be free.
The museum will display many of the two hundred artists collected by the Broads over almost half a century. And one artist who will be represented very well is Takashi Murakami. Takashi Murakami is often compared to Andy Warhol for the influence of his work not only within the art world, but also on popular culture. As many of you know, his super flat style has made its way into collaborations with Kanye West, Pharrell Williams and famously with fashion house Louis Vuitton and designer Marc Jacobs. He launched a production company, Kaikai Kiki, which among many other things, manages and promotes lesser-known artists.
A dazzling array of business as art initiatives is underpinned by his studio art practice and Takashi’s deep interests, which range from nineteenth century Japanese painting to Buddhism, anime and post-war social politics. And by the way, tomorrow night, as I think many of you know, he will be screening his debut feature film, Jellyfish Eyes, at the Ace Hotel Theatre just down the street from here. If you haven’t snagged your tickets you should act fast and go down there to the box office. Tonight Takashi sits down with writer and cultural philosopher, Pico Iyer. Pico is the author of ten books and literally hundreds of essays that have appeared in leading magazines and journals throughout the world.
His book, The Global Soul: Jetlag, Shopping Malls and the Search for a Home…great title…was an unforgettable read for me and so many others fifteen years ago. And his 2008 book, The Open Road, drawing on 34 years of talks and travels with the fourteenth Dali Lama was a bestseller published in a dozen countries. An essay of his about Murakami will appear in the catalog of the Broad collection set to debut with our museum. Pico is one of the great literary voices of our time. He expressed both the beauty and the challenges of our increasingly interwoven world and why all that interconnectedness leads often and paradoxically to more distance and conflict, but also other unexpected places.
A resident of Japan since 1987, Pico has observed the work of Murakami for many years and most recently said, “He’s one of the most vital and essential figures in Japan today.” A detail or two I’m obliged to mention…our talk tonight extends to an online live stream audience. Audience members and online viewers are invited to Tweet questions for the speaker’s consideration using the #BroadMurakami and the speakers will answer select questions at the end of the talk. And with that, it’s my pleasure to welcome to the stage Takashi Murakami and Pico Iyer.
Pico Iyer, writer:
Thank you. As you can see, it’s my job to be the straight man this evening but thank you so much, Joanne. My aim actually is to be as silent as possible because this is a rare chance for all of us in LA to hear Takashi Murakami. But before I fall silent, I just wanted to almost set our conversation into a kind of context. As you heard, I’ve been based in rural Japan for 27 years and I go back and forth between Japan and California. And a few months ago, I was going to my local health club in Nara and I squeezed into a little elevator and I saw there were a couple of young mothers there dressed in Gucci and Dior with Hello Kitty rings next to their Louis Vuitton bags.
And their kids were of course adorable in Captain America and Superman t-shirts and the young fathers were wearing hip hop kind of South Central gear from Abercrombie and Fitch probably, and I thought, “What a charming, cheerful, innocent world I’ve chosen to live in.” And then the elevator stopped at the third floor and a very demure-looking matron came on and I remembered my Japanese wife who told me that this lady had actually had a mental breakdown and would sleep with any man around. And then I looked and I saw a retired businessman in the elevator and he characteristically was carrying a Manga comic book full of wide-eyed nymphettes and XXX-rated scenes of graphic violence.
And then I remembered that the Tokyo Police Department presents itself to the world through a loveable little character called Pipo and even the nuclear industry in Japan represents itself through a cartoon mascot, Pluto-kun. And I went back to my apartment and I began looking through Takashi Murakami’s work, and suddenly everything fell into place because there were the really irresistible, cute, cartoon-y bright characters but surrounded by signs of apocalypse. And there were the two-dimensional, super flat figures that surround me but haunted by ghosts and demons and nightmares. And there was the post-war All-American generic suburb we know from the novels of Haruki Murakami but shadowed by the spirits that we see in the wonderful films of Hayao Miyazaki.
And suddenly I felt really as if Takashi-san’s work had explained the world around me but also all the invisible worlds around it. So now all of us know that his work is very charming and troubling and easy and difficult and layered and big and fearless. But I think it’s like nothing else on the planet and certainly for me, Japan never looks the same after looking at his work. So Takashi-san, so happy to see you here. And I have a lot I want to ask you about you process and your vision but I thought maybe we could start way back. What are your earliest memories of growing up in Japan?
Takashi Murakami, artist:
Okay. So I have to excuse myself…but [I will speak] maybe 80 percent in Japanese and twenty percent in very bad English, so but in a difficult moment [I might use my translator Yuko.] Your question is memory, right?
Pico Iyer:
Growing up. Yeah.
Takashi Murakami:
Oh. Okay. My memory was linked with my piece mostly is exactly and the Vietnam wars TV program and documentary stuff in Japanese TV and also like 40 years ago very often to showing exactly documentary the war stuff…World War II…like…and why Japan lose the war and many, many war image and also the Cold War too, like in America and the Soviet Union. So a lot of stuff in my environment is war issue because my father served defense force. He was working so also he was a geek for kind of the weapon and my house having a lot of the magazines about weapons and stuff. That’s why anytime to having a big question about what is a war because… my father said why we lose from the US that’s why so that the reason is he talked to me again and again and again.
So but my philosophy came from conversations with my father maybe so that is the first memory but at the same time kind of like a SciFi TV program…or some kind of the most kaiju stuff so that is very familiar. So because at the moment was very kind of that dark kind of feeling because in the Pacific Ocean having several atomic bomb experiments and the Japanese people really fear about effect in kind of the radiation stuff because my mom said, “So please be careful when the rain incoming,” so you have to escape from the rain because of radiation. So kind of that feeling was very from the kaiju movie a lot in Japan, that environment I think so my memory was something like that.
Pico Iyer:
And your mother actually grew up in Kokura, which is the town where the atom bomb was going to be dropped before they chose Nagasaki. Isn’t that right?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Yeah. So she was talking with me about this story. So if the Kokura city was not crowded so maybe you are not here. So kind of that.
Pico Iyer:
She saw the bomb?
Takashi Murakami:
She said Nagasaki atomic bomb maybe she saw that kind of a rainbow color in the sky, right? A very, very curious color, like not rainbow but kind of the orange plus never seeing the landscape she said.
Pico Iyer:
And then were you also absorbing a lot of American stuff when you were a kid?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Many, many TV programs and I don’t know in English the title but many kind of family movies.
Pico Iyer:
Cartoons?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Cartoons every day and also Lassie.
Pico Iyer:
Lassie?
Takashi Murakami:
Yeah. And kind of the dolphin something like a dolphin stuff? What’s the title?
Female Speaker:
Dolphin?
Takashi Murakami:
Yeah. Dolphin. Kind of…Flipper?
Pico Iyer:
Flipper. Yeah.
Takashi Murakami:
Yeah. Yeah. Kind of that. Very popular. So I was a very big fan.
Pico Iyer:
I’ve seen your movie and I was interested in the little boy in the movie. Did you spend a lot of time by yourself as a kid?
Takashi Murakami:
Watching the…?
Pico Iyer:
Jellyfish Eyes.
Takashi Murakami:
No. Because then I have a young brother and I have many friends and also…
Pico Iyer:
Right.
Takashi Murakami:
Right. And also my neighborhood was kind of rice farm so that mean that we can go fishing and kind of catching for the lobster or something so a kid’s time was very, very happy with nature.
Pico Iyer:
And then when you went to college, you decided to study the most traditional side of Japanese art. Isn’t that right?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Yeah.
Pico Iyer:
And you got a doctorate in…what was the subject of your study?
Takashi Murakami:
Why I have to go to the Japanese traditional painting department, the reason was when I was getting very big influence of the movies…Steven Spielberg and George Lucas and Hayao Miyazaki stuff. And then my dream was I wanted to go into the kind of animation industry and if I can make a good drawing so immediately I want to go but I have no skill. So that’s why I saw I have to do training about making a drawing and painting. So but when I choose department design and the oil paint and many departments but no fit because it looks really complex. So the Japanese traditional painting department was just sketching like a ball and like kind of the landscape. So okay so when I will go that this department and get training for the drawing, that’s why I choose.
Pico Iyer:
Easier.
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. But I lose two years and that was difficult.
Pico Iyer:
And I think I heard that when you were a student somebody said you weren’t so good with color so you decided really to work hard on color or something like that?
Takashi Murakami:
I don’t know. Oh yeah. No. Yes. That memory…almost every day I remember because this lady’s boyfriend is very handsome and also his color sense if very good so everybody understand him…everybody. And then this lady wanted to say, “And my boyfriend has very good color sense.” And then why? So she comes to behind me and, “Oh…your color sense is so bad. It looks like brown color and the black and white is stupid.” But why? So I came to the universities. I wanted to make training because I have no skill and that’s why. But I cannot say for her and that was a very big complex deal now. So that’s why you see the Louis Vuitton… monogram that is a kind of myself... I can use but at the same time you have no sense for the color so I know that.
Pico Iyer:
I hope she’s seen your more recent paintings.
Takashi Murakami:
I don’t know. So this guy is a professor in the university and getting married. Maybe she’s still kind of proud of him. I don’t know.
Pico Iyer:
And then I think in 1988 you went to New York to see Anselm Kiefer exhibition at the MoMA. How did being in this country change the way you looked at Japan or change you?
Takashi Murakami:
I think no different the change for when I watching at Japan. The different thing is what is art I understood because contemporary art is what is my big question. Because in Japan contemporary art just came from the West and misinterpretation… so now I understood and still now misinterpretation. But that’s why many thing is unlogic so and then why I was very interested in the Kiefer stuff was obvious was copying from the Ansem Kiefer so very good to copying. And then when I was first shocked to the contemporary art was his exhibition. So and then I found Kiefer’s image in the magazine I misunderstood.
Japanese artist is the image I thought but this is not his work. And then I found the name of the artist and at the moment was in MoMA having a Kiefer show. Okay so I have to go and I have to see the real piece and then I saw the Kiefer stuff. I was crying. I don’t know why. And it was because a kind of gigantic kind of the pyramid painting was all by my scale…all by my image so that’s why I was a big tear…looks like really embarrassing. It looks like over fifteen minutes standing behind this pyramid painting. Maybe I was drunk myself but then I still really just stayed and I loved the Kiefer stuff so because of political issue and his kind of scale of thing isn’t my favorite but at the moment I don’t know why.
And also at the same time I saw the Jeff Koons show in the Sonnabend Gallery but I couldn’t understand…what is this porcelain of stuff, like a Michael Jackson and Pink Panther stuff and super confusing. But Sonnabend Gallery is frame and scale I understood so I have to look at what’s the reason why this artist is showing up there because Jeff Koons name I mention because he was making basketball stuff but so much far away that piece was. So my first experience in New York City in the art world is completely a mystery, everything. It was just a huge scale and really stupid piece and I cannot understand it and the gallery in Soho you cannot see everything like two hundred or three hundred galleries…my brain was an explosion. It is, “I cannot come to this world,” so I almost gave up. That is my impression first time.
Pico Iyer:
But it sounds like it confirmed your idea you could make big pieces or you could do something quite like that.
Takashi Murakami:
Yeah. That’s why I have an obsession for making a big piece, because that first big shock for me during the Julian Schnabel stuff and Kiefer and many, many artists at the moment was having big pieces and I was very inspired, so still until now.
Pico Iyer:
And I feel your big pieces are almost a way of saying something very direct to Japan about what it’s not doing. Do you feel that you’re talking to your society through your art?
Takashi Murakami:
I don’t know. I can say I don’t know because I am a very big fan in Hayao Miyazaki’s film so his political statement is kind of the communist he was and is actually left wing and he was maybe in the 1980s gave up. And then his career was started so that’s why his storyline is very wavy and not happy in anytime but looks like happy end…kind of the environment I’m really understanding. So that’s why some of my pieces, when I’m making up my concept and narrative point, I’m making a very honest…honestly to say something so that’s why my statement is what is myself and the Japanese people, how confusing…not segmented like straight away, just open the very, very confusing landscape.
Pico Iyer:
And maybe lost the confidence after the war, it seems…the Japanese culture?
Takashi Murakami:
But you know, honestly Japanese young people having a strange confidence. I don’t understand where from this confidence and also maybe my generation also the same thing. That’s why my standing position in Japan is very bad, like Takashi’s saying the Japanese shallow stuff too much and Western people are laughing at that, Takashi’s piece. A very bad example is Masturbation Guy so this is not true. This is too much operation for bad form.
But you know, when Western people came to Japan and they’re watching at convenience store can see the kind of pornographic Manga stuff a lot so not kind of the photograph like Manga so that is really strange. And also almost can get the sexuality came not from real…kind of the imagination…came from the Manga…This is much big difference so that culture is my background so that’s why I have to making myself to make…how can I say? Western contemporary art new. How can I say?
Takashi Murakami (interpreter):
So when I try to talk about all that through the contemporary art, language and grammar, it looks as if I’m only talking about the shadowy part of the society but that’s what I’m trying to portray.
Pico Iyer:
So do you feel your art is misinterpreted maybe more in Japan than here?
Takashi Murakami:
I don’t know. But the Japanese people are having…I said confidence…so that means we don’t need the Western something. Kind of the, “We can create ourself.” But this is not true but kind of just misunderstood is like now the Japanese culture having a very strange wave I think. You understand, right?
Pico Iyer:
Yeah. Because I live in Japan so…
Takashi Murakami:
That’s why the Haruki Murakami is very popular and same time kind of the highest level…the cultured people hate him.
Pico Iyer:
Yes.
Takashi Murakami:
So that’s kind of the complex is anytime to having our culture.
Pico Iyer:
But Hayao Miyazaki, whom you admire so much, is an interesting example because he’s so deeply Japanese and he’s summoning all the old Japanese spirits, the kamisama, but his films translate to every culture in the world. He’s so universally popular, isn’t he?
Takashi Murakami:
But you know, his standpoint is pretty good because animation culture itself is a very fit with our culture so that’s why now my project is making exact animation stuff, kind of the Japanese animation style. So this is try to how understanding each other, Japanese audience and me, so this is big trial.
Pico Iyer:
Now I think one thing that people don’t understand when they see your work is how much time and effort has gone into it. I think sometimes you spend ten years on one piece and I wonder if you want to show us a work and tell us about your process and how much went into it?
Takashi Murakami:
Okay. So…yeah. Yeah. Oh. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. [looking at work on screen]
Pico Iyer:
That’s Arhats?
Takashi Murakami:
I don’t know. This is a process. This has a process?
Pico Iyer:
Yeah. But so this is a recent one from a few years…Arhats is after the Fukushima?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. But this is a hundred-meter painting but when it was created it looks like in eight months is a pretty short time so but because…I don’t know…that I have attention so I know I want to make it a challenge…
Pico Iyer:
A challenge?
Takashi Murakami:
Yeah. So I don’t know what’s a challenge. I don’t know. A hundred-meter painting…I never thinking about that and when one day I got that idea…a hundred-meter painting is pretty unusual so that’s why okay so this is a goal. This is a concept and then 500 Arhats is after that I’m looking for what concept is good fit for this very long painting and then I found it is. And I am grateful the art university student…mostly the nihong Japanese traditional painting school department people. So and then copying for the many, many Japanese traditional paintings shape.
And then I was kind of the patchwork so many different images and then finally…and also a few artists…few students…very good making a drawing so these people finally go to the animation industry so now is very famous animator. But that people was pretty good drawings and then I choose the piece and I’m cutting for the shape and the kind of patchwork stuff. But I couldn’t sleep for like three or four months. So that’s why very nervous…can make in a timeline or not? And the budget thing and then I have to build for a new big studio also same time so many things are a big struggle.
Pico Iyer:
And probably it’s a lot of stress to have so many people working there.
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Yes. And also at the moment working with me, the student, after I finish this painting and over 95 percent is gone, like, “Takashi…fuck you.” And kind of I understand…I understand and like, “Thank you so much and fuck you too,” right? So very you know kind of like bad mood. You know, this is an artist battle, right? So when I was student…go to some many part-time job but I never say, “Fuck you,” but okay…so when I get the success like this is not my job or something like that but big, big stress I can give to them. That they got I think.
Pico Iyer:
And I get the sense your vision has changed a lot since the earthquake and tsunami and the Fukushima.
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Pico Iyer:
It seems like you’re much more sympathetic or like your art is more about healing than confronting now.
Takashi Murakami:
Yeah.
Pico Iyer:
Yeah? Is that true?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Because my career was almost learning in the process in what is contemporary art so sometimes it’s actually in the history…came from the history…and sometimes because in the 1990s the world was going to the kind of the money game, like what is capitalism. So that was my theme, but after the earthquake my idea came back to when I was kids…that feeling like very big fear about environment like radiation stuff and kind of catastrophe so we still have big possibility to the big earthquake in Tokyo. Okay so one day to come the big earthquake and also the huge catastrophe in my neighborhood and then I understood. We are from the religion because I have no religion, still now, but I go to the kind of the Shintu kind of temple and New Years…Happy New Year…I do.
But kind of my religion, the feeling is Hayao Miyazaki’s movie, like I believe nature or came from the space something and I believe the UFO or something like that. So this is my religion because you know, Steven Spielberg’s movie is almost religion like an alien’s movie, right? So I believe him but so at the same time kind of the complexities of why Japanese culture was destroyed, everything after World War II so at the same time the religion is almost destroyed. So but after the earthquake I’m super understanding that the moment…so people want to be getting some story. So story is very important. What is a story is kind of making a dream and making a future so we can create the future but it is not true.
So but we need a story so that is a religion I thought. That’s why I took the idea, the 500 monks and Arhat…that is why I choose this theme is 500 Arhat is Japanese religious created because it came from China. The Arhat was of…how many pieces? A hundred eight people…so that is the true stuff but when imported to Japan and time to time to using for just storyline so people created four hundred so that is I think Japan’s culture in reality. And this painting…first we understood first time to showing at Qatar in Doha City Museum. Qatar also the part of Asia but we don’t know each other very much. We get the oil and the gas from this country very much but we misunderstood too kind of the culture distance. That’s why 500 Monks and Arhat is a very good example to want to be communication but still far away in a culture.
Pico Iyer:
Because when you go to a temple in Kyoto, there’s a version of this. You often see the thirteen Arhats in a classic Kyoto temple, don’t you? So you’re taking again something deeply traditional but putting it in a new direction.
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. At the moment was yes…Kano or someone…it’s a big show…500 Arhat painting show in Tokyo but that was same time the earthquake moment. That mean the opening was delayed for two months so that is a very good timing for I watch this show.
Pico Iyer:
Also I’ve heard a lot of people in Japan talking about ghosts after Fukushima and there’s even a Buddhist priest in the Fukushima area who’s helping people get ghosts out of their system.
Takashi Murakami:
Oh really?
Pico Iyer:
Yes. And I feel that ghosts are important…
Takashi Murakami:
Please you know talking about this thing…I never heard that.
Pico Iyer:
A lot of people lost their minds just before the event and after and they’re wandering around surrounded by their ancestors who are gone or half-gone or they don’t know, but suddenly the priests have found what you’re saying, which is the need for some medicine and people have lost even more sense of reality and whether they’re living or dead. And also the spirits that we see in the Miyazaki films that are inside the trees and the forest kind of coming up into the people more since that.
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. I understand.
Pico Iyer:
Like your mother said about the rain when you were small…full of other things. Now if making a hundred-meter painting is a lot of stress, making a movie must be even more?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Very much. Very much because I cannot control myself so the movie industry people is completely different so that’s why the communication grammar is still in the process because my ways…why my assistant was thinking, “Fuck you, Takashi,” because I said just my job is to say no. It’s not say yes. So I can, “No. No. No,” every day and finally to finish up the painting so just I want to be saying, “Thank you so much,” but I have a big stress because this is not my piece so kind of my process is very painful maybe. So on the movie you experience the same thing, right? I did each cut and each process…music and after recording and editing.
I was doing for the hundred percent but cannot succeed, cannot satisfy so that’s why I cannot say, “Oh. This is great…just okay.” That reaction is pretty cold so that made very difficult communications they think and I’m also thinking about that. But I’m very enjoying because this is my dream. And also I was very remembered about when I see a movie…the Soviet Union…the movie director Tarkovsky…so he was making Stalker…you know, the Stalker movie? So the storyline is traveling for the bomb is actually the Soviet Union was having a big experiment for the atomic bomb. At the place was very dangerous so and then Tarkovsky making a storyline…don’t want to say attack for the government but in a storyline this is the people are very dangerous and the mutation.
But at the same time very dangerous and a very logical political situation can make a very beautiful story. That is a mysterious thing and also the people can believe what is created from people…human being. So and I think I had been over ten years trying to make a storyline to make the animation but I couldn’t. But after Fukushima stuff is immediately I can make, linked with kind of the very hidden…the story in the politics so that’s why I can make a movie right now.
Pico Iyer:
And did you see Tarkovsky’s movie The Sacrifice?
Takashi Murakami:
No. Sorry.
Pico Iyer:
Oh. I hope you can because that has an event very similar to Fukushima…a sudden big shock and everybody’s life is changed.
Takashi Murakami:
Oh. Okay.
Pico Iyer:
But so you were saying it was your dream for a long time to make a movie, ever since you were a kid?
Takashi Murakami:
No. No. It’s when I was watching the movies…the very famous animation movie, Galaxy Express 29 was kind of a children’s movie. So but when I was a high school kid I was crying very much and I went to the movie theater like ten times…I don’t know why. So but at the same time Hayao Miyazaki debuted in a TV program and I was super inspired from that. It is two title, like I don’t know in English…like Conan or something…like Hayao Miyazaki making an animation TV program was super nice. And then okay, so I want to go into that, this industry but just now I could make a small movie but that is a dream. And also still now very super difficult operation. Yeah.
Pico Iyer:
But what does a movie allow you to do that you can’t do in painting, apart from telling a story?
Takashi Murakami:
The painting is completely follows Western contemporary art rule. It looks like kind of the tennis and golf and football and the baseball, something like that. Contemporary art having very strong rule so that’s why I follow the rule. So that is you know, my feeling…making a painting or sculpture…looks like using a Japanese cute but still in a rule.
Pico Iyer:
But with the movies you’re making your own rules?
Takashi Murakami:
You know, I want to…looking at movie…its grammar and the rule because when I go see a new movie, it was great but what is great stuff is can combine with Japanese kaiju movie and how do you do the scenario grammar? So that is one of my goals but I didn’t understanding for the how do you do grammar so I want to understand very much.
Pico Iyer:
Because you put all this work into making Jellyfish Eyes, which some of us will see tomorrow, but I think you’re already in post production of Jellyfish Eyes II?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes.
Pico Iyer:
And then you’re planning a third one soon.
Takashi Murakami:
Yeah.
Pico Iyer:
So this is going to take up a lot of your time for the next few years.
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Very much. Like kind of seven days…like three days…four days making a painting or sculpture and the other three or four days is making a movie…kind of 50-50 right now.
Pico Iyer:
You’re doing them at the same time?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Almost the same time. In noontime having a meeting and the nighttime and the early morning is making a painting…something like that.
Pico Iyer:
So this confirms what I heard about you, which is you never sleep.
Takashi Murakami:
No. No. No. You saw that downstairs. I slept.
Pico Iyer:
Five minutes maybe. Because you were on a plane coming from Tokyo last night, right?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn’t sleep. That’s why I stayed up, you know?
Pico Iyer:
I would be like asleep for a week.
Takashi Murakami:
Big jet lag right now.
Pico Iyer:
So where you shoot the movie is not so far from your studio in Tokyo?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. It looks like very close to the Fukushima area so because right now that area is very popular in the shooting of films because people escape and the government want to be pushing for the promotion. So that is very helpful for kind of the location hunting.
Pico Iyer:
You’re giving them jobs…giving them money?
Takashi Murakami:
Looks kind of the representation for the site but the same time I’m very fear about the radiation effect, like breathing. But it is very close to the Fukushima stuff. But you know, like now so maybe this talk is kind of the Ustream or some live stream, right?
Pico Iyer:
Yeah.
Takashi Murakami:
So Japanese people are thinking about, “Shit, Takashi…you have to stop to this issue,” because now is a big kind of…
Takashi Murakami (interpreter):
So I know one thing that it’s been talked about a lot is one of the Mangas…a well-known Manga called Oishinbo, it’s about the gourmet eating and cooking and in the Manga there was an episode where someone goes to the Fukushima area for reporting and he gets a nose bleeding and that was really bashed as portraying Fukushima badly at a time that it’s very hard. So there was a lot of backlash and even the Prime Minister Abe came in to criticize it so there’s this atmosphere where people think you’re not supposed to talk badly about Fukushima. You shouldn’t bring that up and it’s kind of like Fukushima is the ____zone.
Pico Iyer:
Yes. Yes.
Takashi Murakami:
But you know, I am artist. I have no kind of responsibility about the politics so I am making…but because this is not in politics. This is just touching with the children, for the children, because I was kept feeling, “What is a war?” And my father explained about the war history. That was a really good example I think.
Pico Iyer:
And actually you’ve used the word politics quite a lot tonight so I get the sense that part of what you’re trying to do is show people reality…that we can’t hide.
Takashi Murakami:
When I was 26 or 27 at the moment was Soviet Union the Chernobyl was explosion…and at that moment I was active for something like go to the conference…kind of the field work…two years. And no change. Cannot making a change in my way in kind of the politics activating so I was not successful. That’s why I gave up myself. And then at the moment I decided, “Okay…so my standing position is, Gave up and stayed back from the reality.” And then just my job is kind of art piece and kind of the fantasy stuff because when I see a Goya drawing and painting so kind of Spanish army was killing for the people, we understanding for that in history, the reality. But at the moment was he cannot do anything in the reality so just reporting. So that is I thought my job is this is so I say some kind of a political issue but at the same time, I already give up about kind of access with reality.
Pico Iyer:
And I think one thing that you’ve worked very hard on is trying to encourage an art atmosphere in Japan. You’re working with a lot of younger artists, Chiho Aoshima and Mr. and others…you have a Geisai Art Fair…and maybe your sense was that there wasn’t enough interest in the arts in Japan when you were growing up, say?
Takashi Murakami:
Oh. The Geisai was I had been like thirteen years so first two years or three years was good and came from the good artists, already established artists came from the Geisai but this entry is almost tired. So because I couldn’t link with kind of the young generation people maybe because social networking can produce…can release for the public immediately so my Geisai is pay for two hundred dollar and then showing at a small space and not complete white cube. And then you know a jury is coming and a short time like thirty seconds to one minute to watching and who is best one…this is stupid maybe in young people.
So but when I was debut was kind of the art event…the Belgian curator Jan Hoet, he came to Japan and one of the gallery, the gallery museum, the Atrium was making an event for that, kind of the competition. So Jan Hoet choosing for several artists but a hundred artists bring for the one place and he was choosing and he choose my piece and then I can debut for that. That’s why I think if I can making a gift to the young people…to the chance for the debut…so that’s why I started but I don’t know now. But honestly myself, I’m still really enjoying because anytime I can find out a new idea came from the young people so that even is sometimes…okay so…but in continuing maybe having a little bit future. I don’t know.
Pico Iyer:
When you were saying about how you found yourself crying when you were looking at the Ansem Kiefer piece and then I think you were crying watching the Miyazaki TV…do people cry when they see your work? Or do you want them to be shocked or angry or happy?
Takashi Murakami:
Exactly Japanese people is angry so I…
Pico Iyer:
Angry at your work?
Takashi Murakami:
Yeah. I knew very much but so I don’t know that behind my piece is crying in the people so but when I see my movie, every time I’m crying myself. So this is really embarrassing but honestly I’m crying because the young boy, the actor is very good acting for the crying. I follow this guy…”Oh this is great.” Because when I see a documentary about a Julian Schnabel…he created the movie…and that making the documentary, he was crying in shooting the film and it’s exactly serious crying…”Oh this is great. Cut. This is great. Oh my God. This is great.” And I’m watching this documentary is, “What the hell?” He has too much big kind of confidence for himself, but now I am the stupid guy.
Pico Iyer:
And that same boy is acting in the next two movies?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, he was ten years old and at part two, I was shooting at the twelve and thirteen years old. That means change the voice and change the face…everything will change so cannot keep the child. Looks like how change for adult. That is in the storyline also for that.
Pico Iyer:
It’s a complicated story. You wrote every part of it yourself. You wrote all the dialogue and…?
Takashi Murakami:
Yes and no. Yes meaning main storyline I created and I give to the scenario writer and kind of the director. And I told you about my job is say, “No,” so many, many…the scenario writer and many kind of the image I say, “No. No. No. No. No,” and a thousand, thousand pieces he’d say no and a few good piece and then we choose, “This is a good piece. This is a good piece,” and then can make editing all the good pieces. And then we can make a shape for the movie. Part two was a very, very complex process. Like I employ five directors and I employ several editors and the scenario writer was four people so kind of change, change, change and then two months ago I did the whole scenario but already finished up the shooting of the live action so after that is I have to making post production and CGI.
Pico Iyer:
So editing is one of the hardest parts of the process for you?
Takashi Murakami:
No. Because not my job, like editor’s job. My job is say no. So kind of very painful process. I want to make happy face… “This is great,” but this is few moments and so conversation is pretty hard. But honestly my newest short film, like a Pharrell Williams featuring the Jellyfish Eyes theme song, so that short film was pretty nice process so I had been four years so the computer graphic design studio in Hokkaido, like I employ for that 50 people and three years just say no but this time is…I can smile, you know. “Oh. This is great. This is great,” because this crew is very patient for kind of three years…over three years, and that he got learning for my grammar maybe and also he got good skill. That’s why first time to good communication with the people.
Pico Iyer:
Yeah. It’s good because in this country, just say no is associated with politics but you’ve managed to get it into the arts as the reigning principle. And it’s interesting because I’m also guessing when you’re making films, it’s important for you to be spontaneous. And Japan can be quite a rigid society so probably you have to teach your colleagues how to act differently from the way they normally do.
Takashi Murakami:
This is a really good point. Like Japanese people doesn’t like inspiration…kind of everybody have to follow that one grammar so my style of thing is say no is kind of getting new idea, I want to try the new idea. So yes, very difficult situation. But I met many, many people working with this movie series so now we almost are choosing for the good people and then maybe in the near future is much more good shape I think.
Pico Iyer:
Do you think Japan itself is changing?
Takashi Murakami:
I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s very militant. But you know, when American people asking about the same thing, “America has changed?” and the culture people say, “Cannot say yes.” So kind of really complex but I hope much better but not linked with Tokyo Olympic stuff. Tokyo Olympic was horrible. It’s crazy.
Pico Iyer:
But maybe linked with becoming more international. Do you think Japan ought to be more part of the larger world?
Takashi Murakami (interpreter):
So the reason why I said it’s stupid is because in Japan the construction industry is everything in terms of pushing the society forward. So to make the construction industry prosper seems to be the only way to revive Japan so I understand that but with the coming of the Tokyo Olympics and stuff like that. But when you have that kind of project and there’s also a lot of corruption and everything and it might come to the same conclusion as 30 years or 40 years ago so that’s why I say that’s stupid.
Pico Iyer:
I think in Miyazaki movies too, the construction industry is usually the villain…the bad guy.
Takashi Murakami:
New one?
Pico Iyer:
Old ones like Monanoke.
Takashi Murakami:
Oh. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Yes. [Lukun?] movie, right?
Pico Iyer:
Yeah. That one too. Yes. Now I think believe many in the audience have Tweeted questions so I’m going to share the questions that have been sent to you. This one is, what kind of materials do you use and how do you use them? It’s a difficult one.
Takashi Murakami (interpreter):
So for canvas I use the Belgium-made linen and for the frame to stretch the canvas on I’m using the aluminum frame that’s made in LA.
Takashi Murakami:
This is true stuff.
Pico Iyer:
I think that’s the right answer.
Takashi Murakami:
Yeah. Harrison is the company name.
Pico Iyer:
Have you shown your art in Fukushima and do you plan to?
Takashi Murakami (interpretor):
So when the Tohoku earthquake happened I actually, with the support of Mr. Francois Pinault of New York Christie’s and also with the help of fifteen or so artists…generous support of fifteen or so artists…I did a charity auction for Fukushima and I raised through this charity auction about 6.4 million dollars’ worth of money and then I donated the money to three different nonprofit organizations in Japan. One was the medical nonprofit and the two were more social work-type of organizations. And for a Japan foundation I donated about 1.8 million dollars’ worth of money that I raised. And with that money this June they are about to open a museum for outsider art. So it’s been over three years and now sort of that kind of thing is coming into fruition in Fukushima.
Takashi Murakami:
Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Pico Iyer:
So I think we have maybe just three or four more…what do you think of artists using anonymous personas like Banksy?
Takashi Murakami:
Yeah. Banksy is very cool, right?
Pico Iyer:
Cool.
Takashi Murakami:
Complete opposite of myself right? Wearing stupid stuff. I’m very kind of jealous about him. I love him.
Pico Iyer:
This question will make you happier then. Where can I buy your hat?
Takashi Murakami:
This production cost is kind of over a thousand dollar…production cost. But they’re kind of very small manufacture…making by the 75-year-old guy, made by hand like in one week.
Pico Iyer:
Oh. Yeah. Limited edition?
Takashi Murakami:
Yeah. Like I present for the film one piece and I have two.
Pico Iyer:
Okay. What is your advice for youth who want to enter the art world?
Takashi Murakami (interpreter):
So I think more than my own generation, for the younger artists now it’s actually easier to enter the art world and quickly start earning money doing art. So the industry has become a little bit maybe like a 1990s rock music industry. So in a sense that’s great it’s easier to enter but in a sense you don’t have to think too much. You can become recognized and become famous, start to profit and maybe that will result in short-lived career in the art world. So even though now it’s easier to enter the industry, I suppose because the art industry itself is growing so big, my advice would be to be careful perhaps.
Takashi Murakami:
Not advice, but I’m kind of like big jealousy, honestly.
Pico Iyer:
And somebody asked, do you feel satisfied when you complete a painting?
Takashi Murakami:
Sometimes yes. For example like on the 500 Arhats painting was kind of really good feeling because long process and a very big struggle but the painting is standing alone. So sometimes painting cannot stand alone but kind of that this painting is my children, kind of my child, so that is really a good feeling. But now also can’t get to something like that feeling often. Painting is good but movie is not good.
Pico Iyer:
Never satisfied?
Takashi Murakami:
No. No. But just one piece, right?
Pico Iyer:
Well, I want to remind all of you, today is just the first course. I hope you’re all going to join us at the theater for Ace Hotel, which is just a block down Broadway tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. when Takashi-san is going to be screening Jellyfish Eyes. And I want to thank you all very much for coming but especially thank you for flying all the way from Tokyo to share yourself with us.
Takashi Murakami:
No. No. Thank you. Can I promote?
Pico Iyer:
Please. Please.
Takashi Murakami:
This is kind of the…tomorrow it’s…Special seat?
Interpreter:
A premium ticket?
Takashi Murakami:
Premium ticket. It super expensive like three hundred dollar. Is stupid, sorry. But this is three hundred edition of my sculpture. This is kind of instead of digital printout stuff, I create it in Japan so the premium ticket is a present for this sculpture, each people.
Interpreter:
And the pamphlet.
Takashi Murakami:
What?
Interpreter:
And the pamphlet.
Takashi Murakami:
Oh yeah. And pamphlet. And we have thirty pieces in the seat if you’re interested, please. Getting at this ticket. Sorry.
Pico Iyer:
Thank you again so much. See you tomorrow night.
Takashi Murakami:
Thank you.